[ayso45-refs] U7 Slide Tackling
Beau James
b_james at pacbell.net
Tue Nov 10 12:13:41 PST 2009
Coach Lillie wrote:
> Beau,
>
> I don't mean to be argumentative, but your response makes my point
> about the lack of clarity on the rule. Situational rules, by
> definition, are not clear and can create confusion and even
> frustration amongst the coaches, players, and parents.
I should have been more clear. What I meant by "stiuational" is that it
is a judgment call, and always will be. In a game, it requires a
judgment call by the referee each and every time it occurs:
- was that tackle done safely /for both player/s?
In practices, it requires a judgment call by the coaches:
- is this player skilled and mature enough to learn to slide tackle
safely /for both himself/ /and his opponent/?
Players mature and develop at different rates and at different ages,
which is why AYSO National has taken the position against blanket
prohibitions by age/division ... but strongly emphasizes the focus on
the safety of both players.
> To wit:
>
> * National says no blanket prohibitions
> * One region prohibits it (218)
> * O/ur/ region strongly discourages teaching it but (I guess)
> doesn't prohibit it (wasn't clear before but now I know)
>
To date, Region 45 has /discouraged /teaching this skill to the majority
of U7 and U8 players (not /banned/) because long experience has shown
that a majority of U7 and U8 players are not able to execute the tackle
correctly and successfully, nor is the large majority able to cope
safely with being slide tackled (even when the tackle is executed properly).
> Here is how this "situational rule" affects the play in our region:
>
> # Our team doesn't teach slide tackling in practices and tells our
> kids they can't do it, even though 3 of them know how
> # Another team teaches slide tackling and uses it to their advantage
> in a game
> # Our kids ask us why they are slide tackling when we told them they
> couldn't do it. They question, rightly so, the "fairness" of the
> situation. What is our response to these kids?
>
> The Positive Coaching Alliance (www.positivecoach.org
> <http://www.positivecoach.org/>) talks about *"Honoring the Game"* and
> how it goes to the *"ROOTS"* of positive play:
>
> Each letter in *ROOTS* stands for an important part of the game
> that we must respect. *_The R stands for Rules._* The first O is
> for Opponents. The next O is for Officials. T is for Teammates,
> and the S is for Self.
>
> *R is for Rules*
> Rules allow us to keep the game fair. If we win by ignoring or
> violating the rules, what is the value of our victory? PCA
> believes that honoring the letter /AND/ the spirit of the rule is
> important.
>
> *O is for Opponents*
> Without an opponent, there would be no competition. Rather than
> demeaning a strong opponent, we need to honor strong opponents
> because they challenge us to do our best. Athletes can be both
> fierce and friendly during the same competition (in one moment
> giving everything to get to a loose ball, and in the next moment
> helping an opponent up). Coaches showing respect for opposing
> coaches and players sets the tone for the rest of the team.
>
> *O is for Officials*
> Respecting officials, even when we disagree with their calls, may
> be the toughest part of Honoring the Game. We must remember that
> officials are not perfect (just like coaches, athletes and
> parents!). Take time to think about how to best approach an
> official when you want to discuss a call. What strategies do you
> have to keep yourself in control when you start to get upset with
> officials" calls? We must remember that the loss of officials (and
> finding enough in the first place) is a major problem in most
> youth sports organizations, and we can confront this problem by
> consistently respecting officials.
>
> *T is for Teammates*
> It"s easy for young athletes to think solely about their own
> performance, but we want athletes to realize that being part of a
> team requires thinking about and respecting one"s teammates. This
> respect needs to carry beyond the field/gym/track/pool into the
> classroom and social settings. Athletes need to be reminded that
> their conduct away from practices and games will reflect back on
> their teammates and the league, club, or school.
>
> *S is for Self*
> Athletes should be encouraged to live up to their own highest
> personal standard of Honoring the Game, even when their opponents
> are not. Athletes" respect for themselves and their own standards
> must come first.
>
> Therefore, clarity on the rules and respect for those rules is *really
> important* for teaching kids to honor the game, and "situational
> rules," in my humble opinion, do not support that notion, especially
> for 7 year olds who see things in black and white.
Again: by "situational" I meant that each situation (each player in
practice, each incident in a match) requires judgment calls.
Judgment calls are an integral part of the game - even for fouls.
Consider the opening words of law 12:
> A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player
> commits any of the following seven offences in a manner considered
> by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
As referees, we should and do strive for consistency ... but it's not
black-and-white, and there will always be variability.
> _*My recommendation*_: Region 45 should either follow 218s process and
> forbid slide tackling for U10 and younger (absolutely clear), or
> *allow it* slide tackling for U10 and younger -- the teaching of it,
> the use of it, etc., and just manage the game with regard to unsafe
> play (you need to do that anyway as the ref of the game). Whichever
> one we choose, CHOOSE ONE, and effectively communicate it.
The current position is that it is allowed (and always has been in
region 45), but should be taught only to the players who are completely
capable of learning to execute it correctly and safely for both
themselves and their opponents. The referees will call what they judge
to be unsafe, regardless.
Beau
> Thanks for listening,
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Beau James <b_james at pacbell.net
> <mailto:b_james at pacbell.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Brian Lillie wrote:
>> Thanks, Beau.
>>
>> The national position is very clear - slide tackling is allowed,
>> even at the U7 level. I wish this would have been clearer to the
>> *U7 coaches* as we were told in the first game by the ref that
>> there was no slide tackling. Er could have been teaching it along
>> with other fundamental skills.
>>
>> No worries, and now it's clear.
>>
>
> I don't think we're quite 100% in sync.
>
> /Blanket /prohibitions against slide tackling are strongly
> discouraged by AYSO National. However, some regions still chose
> to block them at certain ages - for example, here's region 218's
> position:
>
> http://www.davisayso.org/aysorules.htm
>
> * No slide tackling allowed for U10 and younger. A slide
> tackle is to be considered, at a minimum, dangerous play.
>
> To date, Region 45 has discouraged coaches from /actively
> teaching/ slide tackles to U10 and younger players as a
> first-order tactic. Even if the tackler executes the slide tackle
> mechanics very well, the tackler must also be observant and mature
> enough to judge whether the opponent being tackled is athletically
> capable of coping safely with a slide tackle. Both factors are
> beyond the ability of most U7 and U8 players, and many U10
> players. (Not all of them! but most/many.)
>
> We teach referees to focus on the safety issue, not to rely on a
> blanket prohibition. That's to allow the skill to develop, as and
> when the players develop.
>
> The point I'm trying to emphasize is that it is (should be) very
> very situational, and very /likely /to be deemed dangerous play at
> the younger divisions.
>
> Beau
>
>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2009, at 7:23 AM, Beau James <b_james at pacbell.net>
>> <mailto:b_james at pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Brian Lillie wrote:
>>>
>>>> I asked the question too because we were being slide tackled
>>>> like crazy when we played the Blue Dolphins (just one example)
>>>> and my kids were asking why "they were doing what we told them
>>>> they couldn't do." This needs to be clarified as it creates a
>>>> sense of unfairness for the kid and frustration for the coaches.
>>>>
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> Can you elaborate on what still needs clarification (or perhaps,
>>> clarification to which audience)?
>>>
>>> Here's my earlier reply to the region 45 referee mailing list:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://lists.ayso45.org/pipermail/ayso45-refs-ayso45.org/2009-November/000128.html
>>>
>>>
>>> and here's the AYSO National position:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.aysohelp.org/referee/Frequently_Asked_Questions/FAQ53.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Beau
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Adin Miller <adin.miller at gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:adin.miller at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've noticed a few teams that we were actively doing this as
>>>>> well (also U7). A few times I stopped play and warned players
>>>>> about dangerous play.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Adin
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Mark Ruzon <ruzon at CS.Stanford.EDU>
>>>>> <mailto:ruzon at CS.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> While we're on the subject of policies that aren't rules:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After my son's game a week ago I had a chat with the
>>>>>> coaches. One coach complained about slide tackling. I told
>>>>>> him this is how I understood the situation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Coaches are not to teach slide tackling.
>>>>>> 2) Coaches are to discourage it when they see it.
>>>>>> 3) If done correctly, no foul can be called.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this correct?
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Coach Lillie | cell: 650.302.7332
> "Always do your best"
>
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