[ayso45-refs] U-8 goalie way out of position

[Beau James]

I generally agree with Andrew's response.  (But do substitute the word 
"attacker" for "offender".  :-) )

A few additional comments inline.

Beau

Andrew Rasmussen wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I believe the main issue is where the goalkeeper's hands are, and 
> whether the offender is responsive to the goalkeeper's position.

And also, which player got in what position first.

> I think that if both hands of the goalkeeper are touching (or within 
> an inch or so of) the ball first - and the offender kicks the ball 
> anyway - it would be dangerous play regardless of direction the 
> goalkeeper is moving.

Correct - dangerous play committed by the attacker.

> The goalkeeper needn't be facing the opponent for the play to be 
> considered dangerous.
>
> My ref-instinct would be to keep the game going if the goalkeeper is 
> second to the ball after the offender is already in the swing of 
> shooting the ball. If the offender is not shooting, but dribbling, say 
> - and the goalkeeper's hands find their way to the ball then the 
> offender needs to stop trying to control the ball. If in the next 
> instant the ball has rolled away again from the goalkeeper's hands, 
> the offender should try to recover control of the ball and score. 
> Dangerous play should be called if the offender keeps playing the ball 
> when he/she shouldn't.
>
> By deciding to play the ball with the goalkeeper's hands on (or nearly 
> on) the ball, the offender risks being called for dangerous play - and 
> thereby may giving up any subsequent chance to score.
>
> Andy
>
> John Vastano wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>  
>> I've had the same situation come up in two consecutive U-8 games and 
>> wanted to get some advice on the best way to handle it:
>>  
>> An inexperienced goalie comes out with other defenders to the edge of 
>> the single goal/penalty area. The goalie does not try to pick up the 
>> ball in play. An attacker dribbles/pushes the ball towards the goal 
>> and will obviously score. The goalie is now running back towards the 
>> goal and diving towards the ball, getting a hand on it but not 
>> controlling it. Ball rolls or is kicked into goal by attacker.
>>  
>> I have let the play continue and allowed a goal. From my perspective, 
>> the dangerous play here is on the part of the goalie, who has gone 
>> out of position and is now trying to recover,

Goalkeepers certainly can commit "dangerous play" fouls. But diving for 
the ball in an attempt to make a save - even when an attacker is getting 
ready to shoot the ball - would generally not be considered a "dangerous 
play" foul by the keeper.

Part of the challenge here is that goalkeepers are, by the nature of 
their duties and position, allowed to (even /expected to/!) put 
themselves in some dangers' way.  Even in U8, to an extent; and more so 
as the keepers get older, more experienced, and more skillful.

>> and there is no way to preemptively stop play because I think a 
>> goalie is about to dive as the attacker shoots. There is also less of 
>> a possibility of a violent collision because the players are heading 
>> in the same direction. In one of the two instances, a goalie's hand 
>> did get kicked as she dove towards the ball.

In such situations, the referee needs to decide who was where first.  If 
the goalkeeper was already on the ground reaching for the ball, then in 
U8 we lean towards "protect the keeper" if s/he is even close to 
controlling the ball.  But if the attacker was in possession and taking 
a shot, then the goalkeeper dove for the ball to try to stop the shot 
.... Nerve-wracking for some parents at any age, and no doubt more so at 
U8, but sounds like good soccer play by both sides!

>> OK, that's the scenario and my interpretation. At the very least, I'd 
>> like to find a way to teach the goalie how to correctly (and safely) 
>> defend the goal. Let me know what you think!
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> JohnV
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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